This entry was written when the author was attending an assemblage in Lucknow. The conglomerate consisted of people from all over the world, with sole intention of a spiritual progress. Cliché? If so, try to continue your endeavor of analyzing the underwritten conclusion without a prejudice….It might just be worth it.
Right now, across me sits a newly wed couple with hands in hands, sharing a single chocolate pastry, and hardly saying anything. The bride is wearing the typical Indian Wedding Saree, while the lucky groom is wearing a very simple T-shirt and Jeans. Romantic? Think twice, dear readers of mills and booms cuz this isn’t your typical guy-meets-girl-and-fall-in-Love. It's far from it.
They have never met ever before except a day before, had absolutely no idea of with whom they'll be tying the knot (pardon my Indian-ness, I prefer saying this then 'taking vows'), not even the nationality of their to-be-beloved, when they landed on the Indian soil a week ago. Yeah, they got married today in front of 70000 people they have never met before; to a partner they met a day before, by a custom with which they share no familiarity(actually, they got married in less then 5 minutes as it was supposed to be a union of soul, so no rituals). The only solace being that all this is being done under the guidance and blessings of the one person they love the most- they one they call their GURU.
I know it sounds weird, crazy, idiotic, creepy and to some even eerie. Accepting to spend your entire life with a person you know nothing about would be beyond your ability to comprehend, if you have had no inkling to the concept of arrange marriage that still prevails in the Indian society, as opposed to the western culture. But let’s just go down the memory lane of Marriage, and see if it really is that weird to spend the remaining part of your existence with a stranger….!
The cave men in the pre-historic epoch, led a life guided by animalistic instincts- to feed and to re-create. However, their excessive sexual drive(maybe due to the absence of clothed female partners*grins*) led them to have coitus with many partners. This led to the archaic version of the modern paternity issue.
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| HAHAHA...LOL!! |
“Who was the Father of the new-born?” was the question that troubled the Phallus bearing member of the society. So as to ensure the fidelity of the female, and to ensure sole access to the female, the concept of marriage was idolized. In exchange of responsibility to feed one or many females, the male was ‘given’ their hand to him.
Then, with beginning of society with rules and laws, the concept of marriage progressed from a whimsical institution of pro-creation to a medium for strengthening alliances. Kingdoms were won by marriages and fights were fought for marriages. Even then, the parents decided the fate of their children.
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| Taj Mahal-Symbol of love/Marriage? |
For centuries, marriage was familial affair, with union based on common goal. And it wasn’t that the union was a loveless one. Some of the epic love stories like Shahjahan and Mumtaz, or Jodha-Akbar etc can be cited in my defense. Yet, the idea of marrying someone we don’t know, let alone ‘love’ seems too revolting to us. Yes, even to me.
The idea of loving and then marrying, rather than the other way round, originated with the propagation of individualism in the western world. Shakespeare played his part; portraying dying for love in such a subtle way, that youth of his time would rather die without love, than live without love. And the idea has since then continued. We wait for the right one to come by, till then we ‘enjoy’ with the ones that pass by.
Consider this. In 1982, Dr. Usha Gupta and Dr. Pushpa Singh of the University of Rajasthan surveyed 50 couples in the capital city. Half of them had arranged marriage and other half constituted the married based on love, with couples being together for varying length of time. Each person separately completed the Rubin Love Scale and the results were analyzed.
Result: The couple that have had love marriage and were together for less than a year score average of 70 points out of 91. However, these figures gradually fall with time with average being 40 after 10 years. On the other hand, the couples in arrange marriage were less in love at the outset, averaging 60 points initially, but their feeling increased with time, reaching 68 after 10 years.
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| Arrange Marriage-Is it really a restrain? |
So maybe, it indicates that love marriage starts out on fire but grow cold with time, but arrange marriages start cold but grow hot…or at least warm.
*Sigh.*
This brings me back to where I started. Their family members have now surrounded the couple, with the grooms’ mother supposedly fussing over her daughter-in-law. It’s hard to really know what is happening, as the groom is form Iran and bride from Iraq. A multi-national union is a rarity, and I'm glad to witness it. :)
Anyways, it reminds me that this entry wasn’t supposed to be about marriage at all. Yet it has become. It was to be about faith, about their ‘blind trust’ on their Guru.
It’s total surrender to his will that I saw today. And they weren’t the only one. 10 more couples were tied in wedlock. (And 6 the next day). It was this faith that got me thinking.
Some would say that they are fools. Might be. But some would say they are the luckiest. To have someone you can totally depend upon is the biggest boon one can ask for. May be.
But the point is, they were indeed the happiest. Because they trusted their Guru so much that they were ready to take everything they would encounter on their path as a part of Divine will, even miseries. And this relieved them of all cribbing, of all blames, and most of all, responsibility.
Conclusion:
I am not here to chastise the married couples, or to discourage you to undertake love-marriage. Nor am I here promoting Arrange marriage as the key to a happy married life.
I am myself fighting my own demons to have a proper conclusion right now. A week ago, I myself would have found the idea of marrying by someone else’s choice, even my parents, abject and atrocious to say the least. This entry was an attempt to understand those demons, and I have failed. Though it hardly matters, as its more than a decade before I’ll actually even consider saying, “to have and to hold……”.
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| Love, Hope and Prayer..all stand on Faith. |
But Faith. It matters. It’s a funny thing you know. You don’t really have it until you have nothing at all. And if you have it, you need nothing at all. Some have faith I their parents, forever ready to their bidding. Some trust their spiritual masters, especially in India and Orientals. And the question worth considering is, do we really trust ourselves to make the right decision alone?
It’s still a long journey for me. Maybe someday, I will eventually stumble upon Pandora’s box. Till then, I guess I’ll have to struggle with you Mr. G.O.D.
-Setu 'Se2' Gupta
25 Commendable Insights:
Hmm. 50 people statistics are not exactly found a fully trustable source for me to draw any conclusions......infact, NO statistics are, you never know WHICH part of the pie chat do YOU belong to.....it's all individualistic......one reason "I" think arrange marriages last LONGER is cause if a person is TRADITIONAL enough to HAVE arrange marriages (NOT the FORCED ones...NORMAL arranged marriages)....then they are ALSO believers of the "cant-divorce-the-devil-either" policy.
There's a simple rule to this life - it's too short, do what you WANT to do......LOVE is VERY important.....and though in my personal view I dont wanna get married :P But I vote for love marriages ANY DAY.....instead of MAKING urself love a partner, I prefer making yourself ADJUST to the partner you ALREADY love......
1. Parents and Gurus dont know you better than YOURSELF, so WHO is good for YOU, only, and ONLY you can decide.
2. Love and SELECTION of the PERFECT MATCH, has a lot of factors to it, including BIOLOGICAL.....which, I have no reason to believe, can be met with by Arranged marriages, you have to MEET the perfect person, from AS MANY POSSIBLE MATCHES AS POSSIBLE......NOT POSSIBLE with "Simmi aunty ki beti kinni soni hai, photo toh dekh" and "Ramanik bhai no chokro che ne, AENJINEER CHE! B.E. B.Tech thaelo!".......:|
And as far as faith is concerned, I have a little problem there, me being a nihilist and an atheist.....faith is a tough topic for me.....it's the last refuge of the broken, these GODs and sellers of HOPE and FAITH......I am waiting for ME to get it, but not from OUTSIDE, from INSIDE of me. People I LOVE, give me "faith", HOPE, and the will and reason to keep fighting. Faith in ANYTHING else but yourself, is bad. TRUST is rational, partially.....faith is always blind.
P.S. Sorry I talk too much!
And I like your style of writing, keep it up!
Guess why arranged marriages work better..cause one is rather stuck with the other. Elders have chosen them to get married, so even sorting out differences (resorting to divorce and stuff really) again depends on the elders. Someone who is scared and unable to take life's basic decisions, is also scared to get out of one's own mess. Only a handful are capable of it. Love never dies down, nor does companionship, not even attachment and these things are taken to the grave as well. It's just the passion thingy and the novelty factor, when worn off, that gives the illusion of love flying out of the window.
And anyways love marriages survive for a lesser time than the arranged ones 'cause the former is based on understanding each other so after marriage there's nothing new to discover in the partner, whereas the latter provides you with 3/4th of your lifetime to understand your partner. In the end it all boils down to boredom and nothing else. But as I say companionship stays forever.
And what weird marriage practice have you described here? Is it mass marrying and all that? Cause it's really awful and freaking odd.
And faith.. There goes the punchline:"do we really trust ourselves to make the right decision alone?"
You need truckloads of guts for that.
@Niyam-
I totally agree….50 people are figures even i wouldn't count upon…But dude, they do prove at something…or at least point to some definitive direction surely…I myself did a research once on a control of 60 people….and results were actually considered by many authors later on…So you can't really offhand ignore the result of that Survey..
I totally disagree with you on the fact that no one knows you better than you….I can prove to you beyond doubt that 99% of people wouldn't even know how they would react when in a situation. And believe me Niyam, i can OUTWIT you in this debate (ask Akrita :D)…So really saying, deciding who is good for you is not a choice we can really make….And if that may be the case, then explain to me the High Divorce rate in western world, where people themselves decide who is best for them….????
I myself don't believe in these god-messengers…And though reading my post might make you believe that i am part of a cult or something, i can assure you that i am not. And i am sure that having read my posts and replies, you would consider me of some intellect and not a gullible ass…And I am a self-proclaimed hyper-critical mind, so when i say that i do believe in god, believe me Niyam i have strongest reasons to believe in him. I don't believe in a Super-natural force if you permit me to say so….
I guess I'll write an article on this topic, maybe it will change your mind about what i think and why i think.
@Henna-
I had this line on my facebook column for over a year-"true love will never fade".
Now you may blame it on anything you like, but somehow this statement does not ring true to me. We ourselves don't really know what love is. You yourselves said so. So it staying forever makes no sense. Companionship is nothing but acquaintance multiplied with time factor. So, even in arrange marriage there is companionship undoubtedly. So lets forget that also. So what is left?? Passion…well it certainly dies down.
And well, i second with your reason why arrange marriages last longer.
And well, forget the mass marriage thing. It was definitely weird, but you need to be there to understand what really happened..:)
@Henna & Niyam-I don't myself believe right now in half the things i have said...This is just an attempt to understand my own fear, my own apprehension, and to raise some doubts, so that they can be answered to my satisfaction....Yet, i would say that my statements, and to some extent my conclusions do hold some merit {{i really don't wanna sound arrogant :(}}
Anyways, thanks a lot for your insights...It is really really appreciated..Read the below provided links...they are an interesting approach to the same topic...:-
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life/relationships/man-woman/Whats-love-got-to-do-with-it-/articleshow/5516432.cms
http://eclectic24.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/arranged-marriages-vs-love-marriages/
@Henna - AGREED.
@Setu bhaiya - yes yes, I regard you as an intellectual above my own realm of thought. And I DO NOT consider THEISTS to be WRONG. I believe there is NO GOD, if someone believes there IS, that doesnt mean he's an idiot. Maybe delusional. Maybe irrational. But not an idiot :P haha. And I understand YOUR perspective of God is something rational, like Big Bang is god? Or those metaphorical theories Agnostics come up with. I agree with them, but I dont adopt them.
And yes, Western Divorce rates are HIGH, because they're open about THEIR life. Yaha MARRIAGE toh jabarjasti ho hi jati hai by ARRANGED system, uskey baad log zindagi KAT lete hai! People going for marrying those their parents think are right chosen out of 20 photographs, are also believing in all the bullshit stuff about one partner for life. Even if BOTH people are unhappy in a relationship, they wont end it. They'll end having s** but they WILL NOT end it!
I always feel weird when someone says Western Divorce rates are high, I mean, maybe I am wrong, but I dont see anything BAD in that.
And LOVE, love fades. I know this by experience. It ALWAYS fades. THEREFORE - it has to be REFUELLED from time to time. It's like a water tank in the sun. When water evaporates, you have to fill it back. REPLENISH IT.
The trick to a successful love marriage is KEEP falling in love with the partner. Which doesn't happen once you take things for granted. Once you start thinking your love CANNOT GROW, you immediately fall OUT of it!
P.S. I am sorry I talk too much!
And let me change my statement of KNOWING ONESELF to no one knows how you FEEL better than you :P
and boss, I can show you surveys that'll prove that we know ourselves better than anyone ELSE knows us.
60% of out brain time, we think about US, 30% of the time we think about things and other people AFFECTING us......10% is reserved for ALL other people you meet......so it's 90% mein ONE person against 10% mein millions.......so I bet, due to human self obsessed-ness (this is 100% true), WE know US, BEST.
And yes, I am sure you can outwitt me, as it is my brain is weak these days, usmein YOURs seems strong :P haha
Cheers
I wont be able to talk like you people, who I believe are higher souls(not being sarcastic, I do wonder how you are able to write so much on faith and love)
But one thing I do know, the only reason of high divorce rates in the west are because they are their own masters. They don't have to worry about "tumhare chacha ki nani ki beti ki mummy ke papa kya sochenge?"
As Niyam said, love does fade. And it does need to be refuelled.
Think practically, 30-35 years with the same person, following exactly the same routine, that IS boring. In a love marriage, you've already spent a lot of time with your partner, so obviously you have less time after marriage, than an arranged marriage couple.
Think yourself, when you were a teenager and had a girlfriend/boyfriend, didn't you keep wishing to be with him/her every single moment? And when you actually WERE with him/her, you didn't know what exactly to do then?
Things do get boring after some time...Laws of nature perhaps?
And I guess I got diverted from the topic. :P
Love marriages are better than arranged ones because in an arranged one, even if you so badly WANT to split, you wont.
Higher soul concept is nonsense, all souls are the same, all thoughts beautiful. Just the treatment DIFFERENT.
And I CANNOT AGREE MORE with Anant. EXACTLY my point. Western Divorce rate high hai cause people dont PUSH or FORCE themselves into a senseless and DEAD relationship. That only HURTS both parties :P
And bro, dunno about Setu, but the reason "I" can talk so much about love and relationships aint cause I am a deep soul, but simply because I am a soul deeply hurt once :P haha.....;)
And nah, you didn't deviate. Though I HAVE to say, I really liked Setu bhaiya's views on all such topics. He sure has a pretty good sphere of thinking, much less limited than mine! Cool :P
I am enjoying this discussion :P
And dont take the higher soul nonsense wali comment as offensive, I am complimenting you :P
@Anant...& Niyam-
Thanx a lot for keeping the discussion alive....I am just being kept way too much busy then i had expected myself to be...Just let me get my thoughts back to this discussion..I'll give you guys a befitting reply/...:P
Though I am now 3 against 1...:P.....
Another memo to myself- Never talk about controversial topics you are bound to eventually run out of support...haha...!!
"And bro, dunno about Setu, but the reason "I" can talk so much about love and relationships aint cause I am a deep soul, but simply because I am a soul deeply hurt once :P haha.....;)"
Ahhh.. I see :D
Sorry for that man!
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my blog :)
2 things occur to me about this post.
The first is an assumption, especially by some of your commenters, that love will die off and be replaced with boredom. It certainly doesn't have to be that way. My wife and I have been together for nearly 20 years and we are closer and more in love than we have ever been.
Deep, true, meaningful love doesn't just happen in the way the books and movies imply. Lust, yes. Hormonal bursts, yes. Floods of endrophins, yes. But these are fleeting states of being. They are overwhelming when they happen, but they do not last.
Real love needs to be worked on and nurtured over time. It is farming, not hunting. I would compare it with planting 2 trees next to each other. Over time the roots and branches intertwine and become more and more linked together until it is difficult to see where one ends and the other begins.
Those who think love is the rush of hormones will live empty lives. True love needs constant nurturing and working on, but yields results that are unknowable to those who haven't experienced them.
The 2nd thing I wanted to mention is this idea of having faith in either god or guru. While I accept that I don't necessarily always know what is right for me, I have no faith in authorities. Quite simply I do not trust those in positions of power to do what is right for me when all evidence points to the fact that those in power manipulate people for their own ends.
Finally, you're clearly a deep thinker. As someone with a degree in philosophy, I really respect that :)
Stability of relationship and happiness of companionship is decided by FAITH. One having deep roots of faith sees togetherness not just an accident but a purposeful plan of UNKNOWN WISDOM [one may call it big bang]. So one accepts everything coming in way with heart not with mind [mind always reacts never accepts].
This ability to accept each and everything is the only ground where love can grow.Love ultimately requires faith as its foundation.
Love and faith both are said to be blind because they are beyond the activity of rational mind. One can not understand the grandeur of these until entered into these and experienced.
For stable relationships both love and faith (in each one as well as unknown) are strongly needed.
In marriages cited by Setu ,faith is the foundation on which love will surely grow because consciously entering into this' leap into the unknown',they have accepted the challenge to welcome each happenings as divine will. '
@ DAD- Thanx for your comment….It was what i really needed right now....
@ Niyam-
1) thanks a lot for considering me more intellectual than you, but let me assure you, that ain't a case so. We all are at same level of thoughts, though different thoughts so as to say…:)
2) You agree with the theories that agnostics come up with..yet you don't accept them…If you permit me to say, and assure me that you won't be pissed off by this, I would go on to say that it proves that it's your ego that does not allow you to accept what you agree with. That there is someone who is guiding you in each and every way takes away the DOER-SHIP from you…and thats what your ego rebels against….
3) Even I don't see bad in divorce rates being high. What i was taking them as was statistics. To prove that we ourselves cannot always make right decision about who is best for us. You deviated it from what i was projecting them, and that is in itself an entirely different debate.
4) you said 'Love always Fades away". I would suggest you read Kim's Comment, and then Rajeev's Comment..!!
5) Whatever data you just cited, in no way proves that we know ourselves. It only, and ONLY, points that we are obsessed with ourselves. Knowing ourselves, and thinking about oneself are entirely two different things.
For Example- let us assume that A girl will think about herself 90%. But in all probability it would be about how she is looking, what clothes to buy, what make-up to wear. She is OBSESSED with herself. Yet she does not KNOW herself. She wouldn't even know how she would react in a given situation. And she wouldn't even know why she reacted in that particular way.
So forget the fact that we know ourselves best. For example, i ask you- do you even know what you want to really do in future?? ( it's not at all personal, i just want to drive my point home)
P.s-Read all the below comments, there are further things that I wanted to say…:)
@ Anant-
Thanx for sharing your insights, and welcome to my Conclusions..:)
Firstly, Anant there are no higher souls as Niyam rightly said. So without any apprehension, please continue to share your insights, as they are highly valued.
Secondly, I totally agree with your concept about The divorce rates and love marriages. I am not here campaigning against Love-marriages, as i had clearly mentioned. What my real purpose behind this post was to play devil's advocate. I just wanted to show you the dark side of the moon, so as to say. At least, the different side of marriage, and more importantly faith would have made you think….things you wouldn't have thought of before. :)
And Again i would say read Kim's comment about love fading away. Kim writes awesomely and his thoughts are based on experience( mature ones, unlike us).
Rest I would say read all the latest discussion on this post. Some of them are to be treasured.:)
@Rajeev Gupta/DAD-
I wouldn't have put it in more apt words. Though i am no way near your experience, and i am still struggling with the idea of faith, yet your words ring true to me. I specially liked this bit of your insight-
"For stable relationships both love and faith (in each one as well as unknown) are strongly needed."
@kim-
Thanks a lot for commenting on this post. You have no idea how much it means to me that you actually took time to read my blog. I'm honored to say the least.
I totally agree with your idea of the need of love to be nurtured. And i am totally in love with your analogy of comparing love with roots…It's thought-provoking to say the least.
But my point Kim, is this that can't there be love after arrange marriage. You yourself said that you are more in love after 20 years than you ever were. So can't arrange marriage lead to love-filled union. And if it can, then why not let someone in whom we believe take the reins, and decide the course. Because, out here( in INDIA), there are illiterate, uneducated people, who are not as intellectual as you are, and who would prefer it to have their GURU decide what's best for them..? And if ha is the case, then what's the harm?? There are some GURU who are indeed spiritually enlightened, and who don't use people just to fulfill their needs. They might be so few that they are difficult to be found, but they are there.
I really don't know what else to reply to your comment. :)
And I'm highly obliged that someone of your caliber, whose writings i admire so much, considers me a deep thinker. you have no idea how much it means to me….:)
@Every1-
I have contacted one person, who got married last year in the same manner as mentioned above. I would try to get an interview, and his thoughts for all of us to read. Maybe that will shine a different light on this topic. Till then, Please keep following for new conclusions…
Thank you so very much...:)
Boss......maybe I was right in the choice of not writing poetry anymore, perhaps I lack expression.
You've misunderstood me.
1. I believe the agnostics' theories, some, which say that GOD = BIG BANG. I DONT follow them cause I dont think I NEED a GOD "even" scientific......Call it ego, call it pride, I dont like the idea that there's a space man looking over everything. You can call it ego, I call it rationality. I might be wrong, and if I am, maybe I'll burn in hell since GOD is a vindictive character (NO DEBATING ME ON THIS....I cant explain my reasons, but EVERYONE is right, AND WRONG, in WHATEVER they say, since there ARE NO TRUTHS, just PERSPECTIVES).....but I am ready for that ;)......I believe UNIVERSE is my god.....NOT "the" Universe......but MY universe.....everyone rules his own world.....but no one can CONTROL it.....but that's it. There are no HIGHER forces that fool around with me. Or atleast, I dont like the idea that there is. Back to the topic, we'll debate atheism later.
2. I said love always fades. you read that. but you didnt read when I said it has to be and can be replenished. then it wont. I said ALL my relations that are still existing (some for over 12 YEARS) are still loving. And Love is Love, no matter the sense. but you need to replenish them. Baki sab individualistic, so it'll obviously differ from person to person.
And as you said let someone you TRUST decide. Well that person isnt to spend the rest of his life with who he chooses, so no, to be, that doesnt make sense. People I love and respect can ADVISE me, not DECIDE for me.
3. YES I DO know pretty well what I want from the future. And I have a simple theory. It's MY future. If it's going to be GREAT - "I" should make it great. If it's going to be RUINED, "I" should get to be the one who ruined it. I dont want ANY ONE ELSE to be BLAMED if I fail. No one but ME.
there are too many agreements and disagreements on this forum....
all i want to say... all the best.... keep up the hard work... and a bit more flexible... ;) ;) you know what i mean....!!!!!
@Anant - Thanks for the notice bro......but arent we ALL hurt by something or the othre atleast once! It's good :P
Faith and Love are never based upon logic. It is based upon the experiences and the feelings. Ask a couple why they love each other, they will most probably say that because I feel the warmth or some spl thing with him/her. So, It is not logic but experience...
“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” :-)
I agree with rajiv guptaji comments.
Btw, ur blog got so many comments. Congrats.
@Niyam-
Brother, i guess our discussion on this topic has really gone too far away then we expected it to...and seriously, it won't yield us no good result now continuing, so as mature adults, lets say-"it was quite a learning experience we had sharing our thoughts"...!
@Aakanksha-Yes mama, i know what you mean by being flexible...will do so...:D
@Saathiya-
Thank you for your insights, and welcome to my conclusions...:)
I totally agree with your thought that- 'faith and love are never based upon logic.'....It kind of sums up my entire thought....very very apt...
And thanks for the wishes...Even i am surprised that my blog got so many comments....:))
@Se2 - I had fun :D
I am always in for the fun of an open discussion, nothing else. And it was fun while it lasted, I aint got no regrets!
As I've said before, I'll end this with "Good Article, keep it up, cause I wanna read more!!!" :D
One thing that I found interesting among all the discussions was about knowing oneself..
I would agree with Setu and not with Niyam on this one..
How can one know oneself..? Defining oneself to certain character traits?
1.Lets say I know myself completely/the best-I know what I like,I know whats good for and whats not,I know what I feel..but is it really possible to foretell that given an unexpected situation,I would react in a particular manner only,just because I said I gave a name to who I am,or rather what I am?
Could it not be other's perception to who I am? Their version/viewpoint could be better than mine!
2. Even if you say so,you could only know the conscious mind,what about the sub-conscious one?(If you believe that it exists..I do! Not going into that,would make for another discussion :D) You cannot decide for the hidden part of yours?
3.According to me,it is a journey.Throughout your lifetime,you can learn new things about yourself,as you unravel new emotions,meet new people,and tackle new circumstances-Experience shall I say?
So,My thoery would be that you certainely can have an 'idea' of urself as you go through your journey of life :)
P.S-Sorry for deviating from the theme!
-Dimpy Nagpal
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